The Orville: Identity Part 1 and Part 2

[neuralclone]

I watched Identity (Parts 1 and 2) on the weekend, and oh boy! Our weird little space dramady is all grown up! It not only came me one hell of an adrenaline hit, but all the world-building that went on made my thoughts churn as well. And for me a TV show which makes me think madly is the best kind of TV show. Below are a few of the thoughts "Identity" gave rise to.

Apart from epic space battles, and all that character development earlier in the season paying off in terms of raising the stakes for all the characters, what I enjoyed about this two-parter is all the symmetry and mirroring in the script. To start with the most obvious, story begins with the Union hoping for an alliance with the Kaylon against the Krill, and ends with them hoping for an alliance with the Krill against the Kaylon. Then there is Isaac's personal arc, which is book-ended by him lying unconscious while the rest of the crew discuss what to do with him.

And speaking of Isaac -

• While the crew do have much to forgive him (not least for lying about his mission), I'm not sure that he's responsible for how things went down in the episode. Isaac didn't take the ship to Kaylon 1: the crew took Isaac there. And while the reports he made to Kaylon 1 were to be used to decide what to do with the "organic life forms", I'm not sure he thought genocide and total war would be the likely outcome. Indeed the few times we see him talking about his research you see him arguing the opposite. Perhaps he was giving the Kaylons more credit for logic than they had?
• I think "cold Isaac" in Part 1 was Isaac trying to squeeze himself back into the Kaylon mold. Indeed, I think a lot of what we saw was Isaac divided between two loyalties and trying to navigate an identity between the two. But as they say, you can't squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube.
• If I remember right, Primary said Isaac was created specifically for his mission. Which would make him very, very young and inexperienced when he first came on board the Orville, for all his downloaded skills and data. The episode makes it clear that experience is very different from data where Kaylons are concerned, so he spent his "formative years" among biologicals. (And let's not forget that he spent 700 years on "Kellyworld" in Mad Idolatry" as well!)
• And if Isaac was created specifically for his mission, does that mean his the only one of his model?
• Lastly, though Marcus and Ty were proven right in their faith in Isaac, I got the impression in the beginning of Part 1 that Claire was projecting some very human characteristics onto Isaac. So while I love Claire/Isaac to bits, and I'd like to see Isaac to stay part of the Finn family if only for his relationship with the children, I'd also like to see them acknowledge his alieness in the future.

And then there's the Kaylons.

• So we've been told over and over again that Kaylons don't have emotions. Like Hell. Primary, Secondary and Tertiary were well and truly motivated by emotion--hate, fear and resentment, spiced with a strong pinch of confirmation bias.
• Also, Primary accused Isaac of feeling "sympathy". He knows the Kaylon are not an unemotional race.
• I've been having thoughts about the Kaylon origins - namely, why would the Builders build their robot slaves with head cannons in their heads? (Head-cannons/headcanons, geddit? Gee, I hope that pun is deliberate.) It doesn't make sense if you're making laborers and servants, but oh boy, does it make sense if you're creating a robot slave army.
• Additionally to that, if you were creating a robot slave army you wouldn't want to put in any inhibitions against killing. So: create your robot soldiers, leave out the first law of robotics, and try and control them through pain. Oh yeah, that's going to end well.
• I wonder if the Builders created any non-military robots? And if so, what happened to them?
• Primary compared the Kaylons' history to the history of slavery on Earth, but I'm getting a strong hint of other strands in our history, namely the revolutions where one tyrant is disposed of and a new and worse one takes his place. Bye bye, Czar, and hello Stalin. Bye bye, Emperors, and hello Mao. Bye, bye, Builders, and hello...

So, a last word about how I'd like it to all pan out. I think Isaac is merely at the beginning of his quest to establish his identity. However this thread goes, I hope they don't make Isaac too human--I love The Orville's balancing act in at once making him completely alien and totally relatable. As far as the wider universe is concerned, I'd like to see Captain Mercer's mercy towards Isaac have significance apart from it being a way to keep a popular character in the show. What if it leads some Kaylons to reconsider their genocidal mission when they discover that the Union has neither dissected nor enslaved Isaac?

Comments

[astrogirl]

Our weird little space dramady is all grown up!

And how! I would never, ever have imagined this sort of thing when I started watching this show. Despite the fact that all the people who recommended it to me did sort of try to tell me that, yes, it would get this grown-up and good.

I'm not sure he thought genocide and total war would be the likely outcome. Indeed the few times we see him talking about his research you see him arguing the opposite. Perhaps he was giving the Kaylons more credit for logic than they had?

He argues strongly against it, when he gets the chance. Or at least he tries to; he does get shut down pretty hard. It's a bit difficult, admittedly, to pick apart the personal influences from the purely logical ones for him, but I do get the very strong impression that he thinks Kaylon Primary is just being completely illogical about it, and he doesn't seem to have been expecting that. My sense is that all of Isaac's experience with organic lifeforms said that we were interesting and not particularly threatening (at least not to the Kaylons), and that he wouldn't have had any real reason to think that any decision made on the evidence of his reports would go against us, having not factored in the older Kaylons' emotional reactions.

Which does put a different and perhaps slightly less sinister spin on his spying on us, if he had every reason to think, once he got started, that his reports on us were in fact going to save us from destruction. Not that I think for a second that Claire (or anyone else, but especially Claire) is wrong to feel betrayed by it. Or that, if he had thought we were what the Kaylons accused us of being, that he wouldn't regard the prospect of our destruction with equanimity.

So while I love Claire/Isaac to bits, and I'd like to see Isaac to stay part of the Finn family if only for his relationship with the children, I'd also like to see them acknowledge his alieness in the future.

A massive yes to this. I, too, would love to see these relationships continue (or resume), but without making him feel too human in the process. Because that would make both him and his relationships far less interesting. I'm fairly optimistic about, that, though. The show has seemed pretty good at that so far, including a lot of little moments that "humanize" him without actually making him too human.

So we've been told over and over again that Kaylons don't have emotions. Like Hell. Primary, Secondary and Tertiary were well and truly motivated by emotion--hate, fear and resentment, spiced with a strong pinch of confirmation bias.

They are, I suppose, in the long, grand tradition of sci-fi aliens/AIs who claim they don't have emotions while being clearly and unambiguously emotional, at least about some things. Although in this case, it seems pretty clear to me that the contrast is conscious and deliberate in the writing.

[neuralclone]

Or that, if he had thought we were what the Kaylons accused us of being, that he wouldn't regard the prospect of our destruction with equanimity.

You know, if the human race was what the Kaylons had accused it of being, or even sufficiently like to convince Isaac that it was, "The Orville" would have been a very different show! In fact the humans would be the villains and we'd probably be cheering the Kaylons on as they unleashed some righteous retribution on our organic arses. *g*

(Maybe "The Orville" could do a "mirror universe" episode. Bortus could wear a goatee!)

But seriously, I think it's fairly obvious that the Kaylons don't value life in the way the Union does, and if Isaac has changed his views on that (among other things) it's through his interactions with the people on the Orville (particularly the Finns, but probably the rest of the crew as well). So if the human race was like the Builders, Isaac would have different experiences forming his personality and he'd be quite unlike the Isaac we know (and love *g*).

Dammit, we really do need that Mirror Universe epsiode!

[astrogirl]

In fact the humans would be the villains and we'd probably be cheering the Kaylons on as they unleashed some righteous retribution on our organic arses. *g*

Which would be a bold and interesting show, and I would probably watch it. But it would be extremely different. :)

But it's also possible that humans might have been not that much worse than what we see on the show, while still legitimately presenting a potential threat to the Kaylons. In fact, I think the one sensible argument Primary made was to point out that even if we're all peaceful and nice right now, it's abundantly clear that we haven't always been that way and human history does tend to go in cycles. I think it's in rejecting that idea as a justification for genocide that Isaac's personal connections and his exposure to Union values really start to weigh in.

Bortus could wear a goatee!

But would it be better or worse than his mustache? :)

and if Isaac has changed his views on that (among other things) it's through his interactions with the people on the Orville (particularly the Finns, but probably the rest of the crew as well).

Actually, this is the point where I put on a meaningful look and ask if you've watched to the end of season 2 yet. Because, not to say too much about it, but I believe this is a topic that bears revisiting once you've watched the season finale.

[neuralclone]

In fact, I think the one sensible argument Primary made was to point out that even if we're all peaceful and nice right now, it's abundantly clear that we haven't always been that way and human history does tend to go in cycles.

True. However by launching a pre-emptive strike against a potential threat, Primary and his cohorts turned it into an immediate threat. They've actually managed to unite the Union and the Krills against them. And given the Krills' theology, my guess is they'd be a much more ruthless and fanatical enemy than the humans. (If other biological species are soulless subspecies to the Krill, then the Kaylon must surely be blasphemous mockeries of Avis at the least!)

Now if I was a superior Artificial Life-form instead of an inferior Organic Life-form *g* and planning to neutralize potential long-term threats to my species and my world, I'd play the long game. I'd build really good intelligence networks among the organics so I'd always know what they were up to. I'd strengthen my homeworld's defences and start moving my people out into parts of the galaxy not suitable for life but where artificial lifeforms can thrive. Perhaps I'd stir the pot a bit: quietly make trouble between different species so they'd be less likely to unite and make trouble for mine.

(And now I'm thinking Primary should have read Sun Tzu as well as Roots!)

Actually, this is the point where I put on a meaningful look and ask if you've watched to the end of season 2 yet. Because, not to say too much about it, but I believe this is a topic that bears revisiting once you've watched the season finale.

No, but I've chanced upon enough spoilers to know where you're going with this. :D Bear with me for a couple of weeks and we can get back to this - I've been pacing myself with The Orville because I know I'll have to wait nearly a year to get some new episodes.

(Pacing myself with Classic Who, btw. Maybe I should start posting about that as well.)

[astrogirl]

True. However by launching a pre-emptive strike against a potential threat, Primary and his cohorts turned it into an immediate threat.

Yeah. That definitely did not go the way they wanted it to, and they pretty much have themselves to blame. Well, OK, and Isaac. But mostly themselves, because they deserve to get their shiny metal asses kicked. :)

Now if I was a superior Artificial Life-form instead of an inferior Organic Life-form *g* and planning to neutralize potential long-term threats to my species and my world, I'd play the long game.

I am very glad you're not in charge. :)

Bear with me for a couple of weeks and we can get back to this

Okey-dokey! (Mind you, it's been long enough since I watched the episodes, myself, that I don't necessarily remember all the relevant bits of dialog as well as I should, but that will not stop me from discussing it, anyway!)

I've been pacing myself with The Orville because I know I'll have to wait nearly a year to get some new episodes.

That may be a good idea. I binged it hard, and that was a lot of fun, but then it got very frustrating immediately afterward.

(Pacing myself with Classic Who, btw. Maybe I should start posting about that as well.)

I'm certainly always happy to see people talking about Classic Who!

[neuralclone]

I've been watching the Tom Baker episodes in order, one at a time. I watched Meglos last week - ie. the one where the bad buy was a giant sentient cactus. *g*

[astrogirl]

Oh, yes. The cactus was very... memorable. :)